Reviewing My $69.00 Will
My LegalZoom Will has arrived, along with a very professional-looking packet of information. I have to admit that I’m initially and surprisingly impressed. The Will obviously captured what I had answered during my earlier online session with LegalZoom. Along with the Will were separate informational documents, to wit:
- A thirteen-page booklet entitled “Guide to Your Last Will and Testament,” with information about self-executing Wills, debts, probate, changing a Will, Living Trusts, amending and revoking a Will, estate taxes, credit shelter trusts, and a toll-free phone number to call if I have additional questions;
- A nine-page “Property Worksheet” that allows me to list all of my property in one place and also list information about my family and beneficiaries;
- One-page instructional sheets entitled “Notarizing Your Documents,” “Executor’s Guide” and “Guardian’s Guide”;
- A brochure with a listing of additional services LegalZoom can provide (what some folks would call the “upsell” or “suggestive sale” of its products).
The issues that online legal document services raise are more complicated than at first glance, with issues concerning the unauthorized practice of law, the unmet legal needs of the public, overall perceptions of the legal profession, and efficiencies required to compete with so-called non-legal specialists such as LegalZoom.I’m not an estate planning attorney nor do I play one on the web. From my limited point of view, however, the Will does what it should and does what I think I need: 1) it provides for an orderly process of distributing my assets upon my death; and 2) it designates a guardian for my children. It also provides a “guardian” for my pet, which I joked about in my prior post, but in retrospect the simple clause really just provides direction to my wife to take care of Smokey (or any other pet I have) after I die. As you will also see, it creates both a testamentary trust for my kids if my wife predeceases me and also provides for a credit shelter trust if Nancy (my wife) wishes to “disclaim” any estate property and place it into trust. I don’t much about testamentary or credit shelter trusts, so if you see an issue here with those, I’d like to hear from you.
Here’s my Will for your review. Update: LegalZoom’s counsel has requested that I remove the link to the full copy of my will, citing LegalZoom’s online terms of use. I have removed the link temporarily as I review and consider the request.
One change I need to make is simply adding my younger son to a testamentary trust, as the online session was confusing as to who should be the beneficiary under that trust. Right now, if my wife predeceased me, my older son’s portion of any inheritance would be held in trust until he reaches age 25, but my younger son’s portion would not. That’s obviously a mistake that I made, but a mistake that was allowed by a limited online question and answer process. Under the package I purchased from LegalZoom, however, I can make changes in the Will for up to three months.
What’s next? A few things:
- I’ll make the change to the LegalZoom Will to include my other son as part of a testamentary trust, and report back how easy or hard it was to do and how quickly I then get a revised draft;
- I’m asking for feedback from you on the Will I’ve posted here. Tear into it, take it apart, point out what may be problematic;
- If I can drag my wife into this even further, I’m going to ask her (a non-lawyer) to find a lawyer for us to hire and complete a Will. I think that’s only fair for this experiment, as one of the major issues potential clients face is who to choose for an attorney and how to determine what an attorney-drafted Will or estate plan would cost. I’m not a good choice to find the attorney, as I know lots of talented estate planning attorneys out there, including practicelaw’s own Andrea Hable. I’ve already received offers to do my Will for free, which is nice, but is not the focus of this experiment. Rather, I’m hoping to explore with my wife how easy or hard it is to find an attorney and whether the service and product we ultimately receive is markedly different than that of online legal document services, such as LegalZoom.
A quick note on this post and the overall series. So far, I’ve refrained from making final conclusions about the process, as I remain skeptical, curious, and initially impressed. As Carolyn Elefant outlined recently on MyShingle, the issues that online legal document services raise are more complicated than at first glance, with issues concerning the unauthorized practice of law, unmet legal needs of the public, overall perceptions of the legal profession, and efficiencies required to compete with these non-legal specialists. I’m not forgetting those issues and will return to them once this experiment is further down the road. In other words, my honest initial impression of LegalZoom may be misplaced. Or perhaps even lawyers have a thing or two to learn about delivering services along the lines of LegalZoom. We’ll see.
David- memphis lawyer
Curiously, the charge for a divorce in legalzoom is above going uncontested rate here. These forms usually fail most in the area of state specificity or if they deal with it are more expensive than just hiring a lawyer.
Review of Do-it-yourself Estate Plans :: Epilawg
[...] intelligent, and experience Minnesota attorney, Gregory Luce, reviews his experience using the Legal Zoom will-maker program. He admits that it was surprisingly easy to understand and complete the process; however, [...]
Sherman Texas Attorney
These internet will kits are so much easier to overturn in a will contest. You have no attorney to testify regarding the circumstances of the will execution or the capacity of the testator.
Gregory Luce
A couple of commenters have called attention to the lack of a self-proving affidavit. That was actually my fault in not mentioning that the packet from LegalZoom did come with one, with instructions.
Implicit in this comment is that attorneys should be believed over regular folks, as the attorney would be able to testify as to capacity and circumstances. As an attorney, I like to think it’s true, but in reality I’m not sure that such an assumption holds up or should even be presumed.
The Cheap, Online Will - A Real Life Example | Lichterman Law, PLC
[...] you just have to read this post from Gregory Luce. He is in the process of evaluating the differences between an online will and one drafted by an [...]
Michael Lichterman
The earlier comments make some great points. In addition to the above comments, I would like to know whether or not the questionnaire required you to pick an individual as a guardian rather than a couple? Was an individual your preference or did it require an individual? Did it ask if there was anyone you wanted to exclude from guardianship?
I believe the guardianship provision to be the most important provision in a Will if you have minor children. I also didn’t see separate guardianship nominations and temporary guardianship nominations mentioned as contents of the package. They are critical to planning for the immediate time frame after something happens, although I don’t know if Minnesota allows them (not licensed in Minnesota).
Then, of course, is the counseling part of working with a lawyer who focuses on estate planning . . . and in your case, on estate planning for families with minor children. To know that the choices you make are truly the best for your family, based on your most important goals and objectives.
Jennifer
A major issue that struck me was the lack of self-proved affidavit. Who wants to track down the witnesses years later if there is a will contest? Another example of how a couple hundred bucks spent now, is insurance against spending thousands later.
Gregory Luce
Thanks for the comments, which demonstrate that, though I’m an ‘informed buyer’ I may not be a truly educated buyer. As an aside, I received a letter from LegalZoom’s counsel today requesting removal of availability of the full copy of the Will. I’ve removed the link as we consider the request.
Chris
Interesting. I am an estate planner and I do think Legal Zoom has a place for drafting a very simply plan but once you go beyond the simple…I leave everything to X…and start creating a more sophisticated plan an attorney is necessary. The issues I see after a quick glance through with respect to the trust
Tom Lund
Comments on the Will
Debt Clause.
The second paragraph is really a tax apportionment clause. It could cause inequities if your estate were subject to tax and one child received property outside of the will in which the other child did not share. For example, if you happened to name only one child as the beneficiary on a life insurance policy, this clause would cause the other child to pay half of the tax on the insurance proceeds. Permitting the state tax apportionment statute to apply is generally more appropriate.
The last paragraph provides that the amount passing to an heir will be reduced by an amount equal to the heir’s indebtedness to you. It does not, however, provide that the debt will be discharged by such reduction.
Common Disaster Clause
This clause should presume that the wealthier spouse died first. If your spouse has greater assets in her name than you have in yours, it is correct. It may not be material, but having the wrong spouse deemed to survive may limit post mortem estate planning opportunities.
Testamentary Trust Clause
Any professional fiduciary will explain why restricting the trustee’s ability to invest in things other than bonds and income producing securities is a bad idea. It is better to give the trustee discretion and let him or her hire a professional if needed.
Separate Writing
The will does not include a provision that would allow you to direct the disposition of tangible personal property by a separate writing. Such a provision is very useful if you have items of family significance that cannot be divided or shared by your children.
Major Flaws
The major defect in this instrument, which affects a number of provisions, is that it fails to address adequately the contingencies of the death of one or both of your children or the birth or adoption of a third child. The trust provides for distribution of a child’s trust share to his “heirs” upon his death, but does not specify the allocation. If he had a spouse and a minor child, both would be “heris.” If he were survived only by his minor brother, a conservatorship may be needed because the assets would not be held in trust. How would your estate be divided if you were survived by one child and the minor children of a predeceased child? Unless you changed your will, a third child’s share would not pass in trust. These defects appear to be built into the drafting system because the provisions use individuals’ names instead of generic terms such as “descendants.”
There is no provision for changing trustees. If Sarah found the task too difficult or if she became unable to act, a court proceeding would be require to permit her resignation and to appoint a successor trustee.
If your estate were substantial, the trustee’s powers are inadequate.
The document also seems to be missing the “family calamity clause,” which would direct the disposition of your assets if the plane taking your family to its Hawaiian vacation didn’t make it.
You would be better served by investing a bit more to purchase Minnesota CLE’s manual, “Drafting Wills and Trust Agreements,” which includes numerous forms, with explanations, and provides all of the documents on a CD in Word and WordPerfect.
Brian Ray
Most self proving wills require two witnesses and a notorary. Did you execute the will in this fashion and was there a charge for it. For me one of the expenses of the will preparation process is use of the office and staff to ensure the documents are properly executed.
Gregory Luce
I haven’t actually executed the Will. I retained an attorney for my wife and me and we’re in the process of having a number of documents drafted. More on that later. I will also dig out the instructions I received from LegalZoom to determine what those instructions said about executing the Will.